REPLIES being spammed

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MetalDrop
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by MetalDrop »

Most major email providers offer server side spam filtering which is normal the way a lot of people go because it works in all the places they would use that email address and they don't ever have to reset it backup if they change clients. If you have a ton of email addresses it can get a little laborious depending on the provider and if they offer you a way to clone rules across accounts or not.

As a side note Google's basic spam blocking tends to be really good, a lot of the time what people consider "spam" is really legitimate news letters and promotional emails they can unsubscribe from by using a often tiny and hard to see link at the bottom of the emails. So generally the best "spam" solution is to look for unsubscribe links in the "spam". Needless to say don't ever enter personal information beyond the email address the email was sent to after following such a link, as like any link in an email they can be malicious.
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a8907433
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by a8907433 »

1) You are not the only one, me too. Every newsletter from Astonsoft is in spam, even if I click on "not spam".

2) @ MatalDrop: Even if the mail is marked "SPAM" on server- why can´t EPIM mark THIS ONE email (with this particular emailadress) is NOT spam, although this is marked as spam?User´s manual action (this is NOT spam) should have priority!
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by Christine »

MetalDrop wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 1:27 am Most major email providers offer server side spam filtering which is normal the way a lot of people go because it works in all the places they would use that email address and they don't ever have to reset it backup if they change clients. If you have a ton of email addresses it can get a little laborious depending on the provider and if they offer you a way to clone rules across accounts or not.
If I had absolutely NOTHING else to do. I've always used Pop3 and downloaded from wherever my websites were hosted. And I FREQUENTLY move, as soon as service sucks.

In fact, my current host Greengeeks solution to the Cpanel spam was for me to get to WORK, unpaid of course. I buy their ridiculously cheap intro hosting for 3 years and then move. While I'd much prefer to pay more and get quality hosting without having to move, I learned in over a quarter-century that it's the only way to go for small businesses.

I would however like to know how Cpanel can have this spam crap that spams Amazon, Airbnb and even replies to my messages.

Developed in the 1980s and not touched since?
As a side note Google's basic spam blocking tends to be really good, a lot of the time what people consider "spam" is really legitimate news letters and promotional emails they can unsubscribe from by using a often tiny and hard to see link at the bottom of the emails. So generally the best "spam" solution is to look for unsubscribe links in the "spam". Needless to say don't ever enter personal information beyond the email address the email was sent to after following such a link, as like any link in an email they can be malicious.
I just don't need Google accessing my email. I despise all the big corporations, that's why I don't use Outlook either and I much rather pay the people at Epim or whatever smaller company.

And my problem isn't getting too much mail (spam), it's NOT getting the mail that keeps me alive. I can't live on $266 social security and need to get my mail.

I so wish I could just quit all that BS!
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by Christine »

a8907433 wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:36 am 1) You are not the only one, me too. Every newsletter from Astonsoft is in spam, even if I click on "not spam".

2) @ MatalDrop: Even if the mail is marked "SPAM" on server- why can´t EPIM mark THIS ONE email (with this particular emailadress) is NOT spam, although this is marked as spam?User´s manual action (this is NOT spam) should have priority!
After wasting so many hours on spam recently, I've come to the conclusion that there are no white lists.

EVERY address I mail to should be in the white list along with EVERY major reputable corporation.

And of course, MARK AS NOT SPAM should add the sender to the white list. Along with the option, a check box, to add the senders entire domain to the white list.

A 12-year-old with half a brain should be able to figure this out after analyzing the problem for half an hour.

Why is this not happening?

And on second thought, I should be able to view, edit and export both the white and black list to import into a new email client.

WHY WHY WHY is that not possible?
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by Christine »

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/dis ... ialWindows

Everything is serverside. I just don't understand why I can't have control over MY mail!
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by MetalDrop »

Christine wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:15 pm And my problem isn't getting too much mail (spam), it's NOT getting the mail that keeps me alive. I can't live on $266 social security and need to get my mail.
Interesting I had miss read things, where does your important mail get lost at?

In the EPIM SPAM folder, or in the Sever SPAM system?

If it's the EPIM SPAM folder you can make a message rule that bypasses the spam system and ensures that it's always in the inbox, or whatever other folder you need them in.
2022-05-03_142752.png
If it's server spam folder, then that's a whole different ball of wax and far beyond what I could make any suggestions for as it could easily take hours to days to figure out. Which is why most people who want to avoid "big companies" ultimately cave and just go with a mid-sized email provider like GMX.com, Mail.com.
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by Christine »

MetalDrop wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:52 pm Interesting I had miss read things, where does your important mail get lost at?

In the EPIM SPAM folder, or in the Sever SPAM system?

If it's the EPIM SPAM folder you can make a message rule that bypasses the spam system and ensures that it's always in the inbox, or whatever other folder you need them in.
Thanks, it's actually BOTH. Serverside I was told to make white and black lists.

Let's say I check email about 6 times a day. EVERY time I have to LOG IN, NAVIGATE, it's INSANE! And then you don't even know what / how it works and as soon as my host sucks I move again and start all over? If someone paid me $100/day to do that, sure! But I can't donate my time to SPAM.

On the EPIM side, I actually made some rules when I first started to use it for mail last year and found that there are entire domains doing NOTHING BUT SENDING SPAM. They have no legitimate business whatsoever and I don't get why every single email user (BILLIONS!!!!) have to make their own rules.

So, I actually spent significant time on dealing with spam last year and aside from the spam still being in my inboxes, I didn't have the problems I've had in the last few weeks.

I send an email to a lawyer, the assistant writes back from HER email at the SAME domain and it's spammed.

But I don't understand why I'd make a rule for EACH email (THOUSANDS!) that I don't want spammed when I can add it to contacts with only TWO clicks. Of course it SHOULD be one click -- ADD TO WHITELIST! Fortunately, I've never used my email contact list for anything because again, you can't take it with you in most cases.

Not for a better score or some crap, but to NEVER EVER SPAM THAT ADDRESS, and possibly the entire domain.

Just looked at mail.com and searched for spam and it seems that they are making their money from ads because that's all I found. And even with my ad blocker I saw an ad! I hate ads as much as spam :)

GMX.com is even worse!

You'd think that there are many small businesses, especially professionals, who'd appreciate a white and black list and pay for it.

Think about how LITTLE Epim costs and how much it does!

How hard can it be to create USER OWNED and MAINTAINED black and white list that's updated with ONE click?
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by MetalDrop »

real Spam is much more complicated than simply black/white list, which is why most selfhosting email fails.

Sproofing for example is super common in real spam and sproofers will use all the important email addresses government, business, social media support, your own contacts if your web server wasn't proper secured, even your own email address. It's not hard to fake a "from" address, or even a relaying server but it is hard to figure out when it's faked, and most selfhosted systems simply aren't up to the task.

Beyond sproofing real spammers use and endless supply of email address, and countless evolving other tactics, which is why self-hosting can go from incredibly daunting to outright impossible depending on your desired results, and desire to dedicate your life to becoming an information export.

Mail.com makes most of it's money from it's premium plans which are $3/mo ~ ish and offer ad free service and access to POP3 and IMAP4. The "free" ad based email on Mail.com is more like a demo address that doesn't expire, I don't know anyone who uses their free ad based service.

GMX is basically German google, people use them because it's not an American company, and Germany has better privacy laws.

If you can live without email clients protonmail.com is probably your best place to support in terms of companies that don't do any real advertising, are not based in the USA, and likely to be around and trusted for a long time.

I've never used protonmail.com myself but the people I know who do don't have any issues with real spam so their solution for it is probably fairly robust.

Another danger to self hosted email, which you may have run into, is that people who have normal email addresses like google may have a chronic issue of having your email end up in their spam folders. This is because private hosted email serves are incredibly easy to hack and are the source of much of the worlds real spam. Which is why a lot of places deem everything that doesn't go through a known good players routing service as a bad actor.

Anyway, for EPIM + a good email host it should be pretty straight forward since you won't get much real spam to deal with. I have a google account that is 18 years old now that I've used to sign up for thousands of things, and abuse heavily for things I felt where dangerous spam traps that still doesn't get any spam at all. Google is very good at getting rid of real spam, and surprisingly most companies are pretty good at obeying the right to unsubscribe laws.

But for EPIM [or any email client for that matter] + Self-hosting, honestly I'd expect a never ending enigma.
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by Christine »

MetalDrop wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:56 am real Spam is much more complicated than simply black/white list, which is why most selfhosting email fails.

Sproofing for example is super common in real spam and sproofers will use all the important email addresses government, business, social media support, your own contacts if your web server wasn't proper secured, even your own email address. It's not hard to fake a "from" address, or even a relaying server but it is hard to figure out when it's faked, and most selfhosted systems simply aren't up to the task.
You're right, I didn't even think of that, for the simple reason that it's NOT an issue for me.

But somehow you're forgetting that it is the BIG COMPANIES that CONSTANTLY get hacked, so there is absolutely NO way I'd let someone else host my email. Don't you have friends who use Yahoo or whatever mails? They CONSTANTLY get hacked and then I get all their phishing crap.

Bought my first computer around 1983 and have NEVER been hacked.

Probably get hacked tomorrow, one shouldn't brag. But since that was my business and many of my clients were identity theft victims, I know a little about the LACK of online security.

I don't get why you think it's DIFFICULT to manage your own spam lists.
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by admin »

Keep in mind that you can also enable the "Exempt messages from spam filtering" option, which should be much easier than to create messages rules. Please see the attached screenshot.
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exempt_messages_from_spam.png
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by MetalDrop »

Christine wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:16 am
MetalDrop wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:56 am real Spam is much more complicated than simply black/white list, which is why most selfhosting email fails.

Sproofing for example is super common in real spam and sproofers will use all the important email addresses government, business, social media support, your own contacts if your web server wasn't proper secured, even your own email address. It's not hard to fake a "from" address, or even a relaying server but it is hard to figure out when it's faked, and most selfhosted systems simply aren't up to the task.
You're right, I didn't even think of that, for the simple reason that it's NOT an issue for me.

But somehow you're forgetting that it is the BIG COMPANIES that CONSTANTLY get hacked, so there is absolutely NO way I'd let someone else host my email. Don't you have friends who use Yahoo or whatever mails? They CONSTANTLY get hacked and then I get all their phishing crap.

Bought my first computer around 1983 and have NEVER been hacked.

Probably get hacked tomorrow, one shouldn't brag. But since that was my business and many of my clients were identity theft victims, I know a little about the LACK of online security.

I don't get why you think it's DIFFICULT to manage your own spam lists.
Big companies are more aware of the state of their systems which is why they report more hacking events more often. They also have fewer options to cover it up. Small companies can easily sweep hacking events under the rug and not worry about whistle blowers, or never even notice the hacking event at all.

Most of the worlds bot nets are hacked servers and IOT devices that people don't even realize have been computerized because their not looking in the right ways and they are otherwise working perfectly fine. Most malicious code isn't obvious, often running itself as a system app or injecting itself into a common process and using very little resources, often not even reporting back to any place because it already has it's lifetime worth of goals pre-programmed into it.

A lot of hacking events are not based around identity theft so the fact you haven't suffered it is a poor metric for knowing if your personal computers or any server you've ran have ever been hacked.

Anyway, since you seem to know more than I do I'll exit this conversation and wish you the best of luck with your issue, which I apparently never understood enough to offer any advice on.
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by TumbleDoor »

Christine wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:16 am But since that was my business and many of my clients were identity theft victims, I know a little about the LACK of online security.
Not joining this conversation not interested, but since I get these in my RSS feeds and work in network security I feel inclined to point out that if your clients were a common victim of identity theft it is a HUGE red flag that your systems where probably hacked. Most malicious code targets the client data of a business and not the owner.
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by Christine »

TumbleDoor wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:06 pm
Christine wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:16 am But since that was my business and many of my clients were identity theft victims, I know a little about the LACK of online security.
Not joining this conversation not interested, but since I get these in my RSS feeds and work in network security I feel inclined to point out that if your clients were a common victim of identity theft it is a HUGE red flag that your systems where probably hacked. Most malicious code targets the client data of a business and not the owner.
Yeah right. That must be it!!! How could I be so STUPID and not realize that MY systems were hacked months before my clients ever contacted me to help them with their credit.

Must be my brain damage and I really couldn't do without your wisdom!
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by Christine »

admin wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:16 am Keep in mind that you can also enable the "Exempt messages from spam filtering" option, which should be much easier than to create messages rules. Please see the attached screenshot.
I know. Which is why I now add every false positive to my contact list.

As I wrote earlier, about 10 contacts for Amazon, Airbnb and Vrbo each, + every spammed list and transactional email. Good thing I've never used an email contact list.

It's more work, two clicks, and doesn't stop false positives for existing and new contacts that I haven't found in the spam (yet). And then I have to still click on "Mark as Spam" to get it back into the inbox. Three times the work.

But, if I had known that "MARK AS NOT SPAM" is NOT my white list, I could have avoided many problems by adding every contact and list and transactional email to the contact list instead of thousands of clicks on "MARK AS NOT SPAM" -- which marks exactly NOTHING.

Maybe you could update the manual and recommend using the contacts as white list?

And instead of "MARK" as spam, change the wording to "TRAIN" as spam?
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Re: REPLIES being spammed

Post by a8907433 »

Maybe you could update the manual and recommend using the contacts as white list?
I also thought of this possibillity- but I don´t want to have "Astonsoft" (and many others) in my contacts. I would prefer, marking as "not spam" would work just this way- like adding this sender to contacts list.
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