EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

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S_Belle
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by S_Belle »

admin wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:33 pm Okay, some words about the Previous Versions feature. You obviously confuse it with another feature that might be implemented in Notes (only?) in the future EPIM versions called "Revisions". When not the entire previous state of an item is being recorded but just its textual part. Hence your misunderstanding about history per-leaf, availability of assigned tags, etc. At the moment we're talking about previous versions for each of the different item types available in EPIM and it's going to stay more or less the way it is (with couple of additions like an ability to turn it off, clean it up or setup an amount of time to store previous versions for).

That does clear up a lot, I was certainly under the impression that it was revision history, because many system use history and revision as interchangeable terms.

Cool, in my case then my only request is the ability to turn it off then and that's already in the works.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by TumbleDoor »

admin wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:33 pm Okay, some words about the Previous Versions feature. You obviously confuse it with another feature that might be implemented in Notes (only?) in the future EPIM versions called "Revisions". When not the entire previous state of an item is being recorded but just its textual part. Hence your misunderstanding about history per-leaf, availability of assigned tags, etc. At the moment we're talking about previous versions for each of the different item types available in EPIM and it's going to stay more or less the way it is (with couple of additions like an ability to turn it off, clean it up or setup an amount of time to store previous versions for).
In this case you should make this feature per-note then and remove the ability to restore individual leafs as it would make far more sense.

For example the tags being rolled back:

I have leaf 1, it's been around for years.
I add leaf 2, and add a dozen tags to it.

3 months later I need to restore leaf 1 to it's last edited state before leaf 2 was created. I use this feature because it looks like it should work. All my tags for leaf 2 are lost, yet the content of leaf 2 is the same?

It's confusing and strange, and will only serve to muddy revision history later as this feature is too much of a copy cat in it's current state.

In other words:

If there is going to be per-leaf revision history later, then it would make much more sense if this feature was cut down and turned into per-note history, that way there was a clear and concise difference between the two.

It would also make the use of the popup editor as the preview work well for this feature, as then it's an strong indicator to people that the entire note, including all the leafs, tags, and other content are going to be rolled back if you restore it.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by FireBrand2026 »

Here is a video showing the "can't edit a new note while in favorite mode" bug, and showing that the padding issue in the navigation menu is an issue on a 100% new and fresh install of EPIM portable.

Steps in the video for the bug:
- I favorite a note.
- I enter favorite mode.
- I make a new note.
- I am unable to edit the new note.
- I switch out of favorite mode, and am now able to edit the new note.

After that I switch to tasks to show that the odd padding is there.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by FireBrand2026 »

S_Belle wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:42 pm
admin wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:33 pm Okay, some words about the Previous Versions feature. You obviously confuse it with another feature that might be implemented in Notes (only?) in the future EPIM versions called "Revisions". When not the entire previous state of an item is being recorded but just its textual part. Hence your misunderstanding about history per-leaf, availability of assigned tags, etc. At the moment we're talking about previous versions for each of the different item types available in EPIM and it's going to stay more or less the way it is (with couple of additions like an ability to turn it off, clean it up or setup an amount of time to store previous versions for).

That does clear up a lot, I was certainly under the impression that it was revision history, because many system use history and revision as interchangeable terms.

Cool, in my case then my only request is the ability to turn it off then and that's already in the works.
Forgot to +1 this one, I'm sad this isn't revision history, but that does clear a lot up. Though I'll admit it makes the feature feel weird as it mimics revision history quite a lot. I would have never guessed it wasn't supposed to be revision history if you hadn't specifically told me it wasn't.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by MetalDrop »

TumbleDoor wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:00 pm
admin wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:33 pm Okay, some words about the Previous Versions feature. You obviously confuse it with another feature that might be implemented in Notes (only?) in the future EPIM versions called "Revisions". When not the entire previous state of an item is being recorded but just its textual part. Hence your misunderstanding about history per-leaf, availability of assigned tags, etc. At the moment we're talking about previous versions for each of the different item types available in EPIM and it's going to stay more or less the way it is (with couple of additions like an ability to turn it off, clean it up or setup an amount of time to store previous versions for).
In this case you should make this feature per-note then and remove the ability to restore individual leafs as it would make far more sense.

For example the tags being rolled back:

I have leaf 1, it's been around for years.
I add leaf 2, and add a dozen tags to it.

3 months later I need to restore leaf 1 to it's last edited state before leaf 2 was created. I use this feature because it looks like it should work. All my tags for leaf 2 are lost, yet the content of leaf 2 is the same?

It's confusing and strange, and will only serve to muddy revision history later as this feature is too much of a copy cat in it's current state.

In other words:

If there is going to be per-leaf revision history later, then it would make much more sense if this feature was cut down and turned into per-note history, that way there was a clear and concise difference between the two.

It would also make the use of the popup editor as the preview work well for this feature, as then it's an strong indicator to people that the entire note, including all the leafs, tags, and other content are going to be rolled back if you restore it.
I very much agree with this, all my feedback up to this point had been assuming it was intended to be revision history.

As a general roll back function it would make far more sense if it rolled back the entirety of the note at once including all leafs. I think in the long run it would make it a far less confusing feature, especially since it would bring it inline with the way it works for all other data types.

Suggestion: In trash module, there could be a column that shows how many previous versions an item has for easy reference.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by admin »

FireBrand2026 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:11 pmHere is a video showing the "can't edit a new note while in favorite mode" bug, and showing that the padding issue in the navigation menu is an issue on a 100% new and fresh install of EPIM portable.
This is expected as you're in the favorite notes view and the newly created note isn't a favorite one.
FireBrand2026 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:11 pmAfter that I switch to tasks to show that the odd padding is there.
Try to install it into a new folder, in this case this padding will be gone.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by FireBrand2026 »

admin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:11 am
FireBrand2026 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:11 pmHere is a video showing the "can't edit a new note while in favorite mode" bug, and showing that the padding issue in the navigation menu is an issue on a 100% new and fresh install of EPIM portable.
This is expected as you're in the favorite notes view and the newly created note isn't a favorite one.
Which only adds to why both trees need to be on screen at once, because this is bad design and should not be expected behavior. You should never be prevented from editing a newly created item. This would be like trying to make a new email and then having it force close on you because you weren't in the right view mode.
admin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:11 am
FireBrand2026 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:11 pmAfter that I switch to tasks to show that the odd padding is there.
Try to install it into a new folder, in this case this padding will be gone.
It is installed to a new folder, 100% fresh clean, tested on multiple systems and both windows 10 and windows 11.

Attached is a video showing the entire process of installing it fresh and showing the padding is still there, on a freshly installed windows 11 computer.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by admin »

1. Both trees on screen at once? This is going to look bad. Better switch to the All trees position.
2. What's your scaling options in Windows?
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FireBrand2026
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by FireBrand2026 »

DPI is 175%

As for having both all and favorites on screen at once and looking bad, that's very subjective in all the worst possible ways, I find dual trees looks quite nice, but even if I didn't, I would be much happier with proper functionality than crippled functionality. I can get use to something that I don't like the way it looks if it offers me a tenable benefit.

That said dual pane for a file tree and favorites/recent is fairly common and time tested. I've seen it in dozens of programs it's a good system.

xyplorer is a great example it uses the dual pane File tree + favorites and looks and works great doing it:
dual pane favorite tree.jpg
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by Triple S »

admin wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm 1. Both trees on screen at once? This is going to look bad. Better switch to the All trees position.
As an artist, I strongly disagree. Dual pane setups are sexy.
Any good art program will let you dual pane layers and a asset tree and it rocks, both visually and productivity wise.

Going dual pane would have the added benefit of making the system easy to disable in the view menu for people who don't want to use it, compared to right now you simply stuck with an ugly drop down box on screen with no option to disable it.

FireBrand2026 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:34 pm xyplorer is a great example it uses the dual pane File tree + favorites and looks and works great doing it:
dual pane favorite tree.jpg
This screencap is awesome, and I'm going to be checking out xyplorer now, I've always thought windows explorer sucked because it forces a single tree for favorites/quick access and the file tree. I always wished it would dual pane like an art program and put favorites/quick access in their own pane.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by admin »

Hm... that's one way to look at it, will keep this in mind.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by Rose Ford »

After using the RC around the office for a couple days, and giving it a fair chance I can say that no one here likes how the favorite system in the notes works. Everyone agrees that swapping between all and favorites is too much of a pain and feels that it kills as much time as it saves in most cases.

To make the system actually save time we believe you'd need to either do like a web browser and have it in a fly out menu, favorites bar, or side window, or do what other people have already suggested and make it dual pane with the main tree.

I really don't think dual pane would look bad at all. The main tree is a tree, and the favorites is a flat list. Flat lists and trees tend to look good together on screen. You only run into trouble when you try and stack two of the same types of form objects on top of each other. Which is why the photo of XYplorer looks so nice, it has a file tree on top, and a flat list for favorites on the bottom, which is exactly what EPIM could and probably should wind up having.

I can see dual pane having some really cool effects, especially if favorites were global and not limited to the current tree.

When you did a quick search for example you would see both the current tree results, AND the results in your favorites or recent notes from all trees. Which would be a pretty cool power feature.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by admin »

This is how it looks like in the 10.0 RC2 version (will be released in the beginning of next week). Should make the selection quicker.

BTW Favorites along with Recently viewed/modified lists will be global.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by Rose Ford »

admin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:52 pm This is how it looks like in the 10.0 RC2 version (will be released in the beginning of next week). Should make the selection quicker.

BTW Favorites along with Recently viewed/modified lists will be global.
That's going to work poorly in Icon and no navigation pane mode.

Around the office there are 3 people, who hide the navigation pane and just use the Go menu, and everyone else including myself uses Icon mode.

On my high DPI scaled screen the task navigation sub-menu is already pushing the limits of my screen. Counting characters on that screenshot and comparing it I can already tell you it's going to push quite a lot of things completely off screen and break navigation.

it's also not going to reduce time waste nearly as much as what's needed. It'll remove a single extra click per change, but it's going to still require a lot of clicking and long mouse movement to switch back and forth between all and favorites mode.
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Re: EssentialPIM 10.0 Release Candidate 1

Post by Triple S »

admin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:52 pm This is how it looks like in the 10.0 RC2 version (will be released in the beginning of next week). Should make the selection quicker.

BTW Favorites along with Recently viewed/modified lists will be global.

Agreed. This isn't going to work. Windows defaults my scaling to 200%, that is it's recommended value out of the box, and it's what works best for me too.

I've attached a screenshot of tasks in 10RC1, and it doesn't even fit all the navigation text being added to it as is, all the navigation text this change would put under notes would push everything below it off screen or render the options unusable like what appears to be happening in tasks already.
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Full screen.jpg
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